5 spellcraft ranks and a racial spell-like ability. The forcecube is nice, since he'd be unable to break out with a spell. Mythic Mage's Disjunction. breithauptclan. This made sense to me for a couple of reasons, the greatest being that incorporeal creatures are immune to all non-magical attack forms; so if they don't. There are some rare creatures that have "Resistance: physical X ( except magical )". Time spent within an antimagic field counts against the suppressed spell’s duration. Wall of force, prismatic wall, and prismatic sphere are not affected by antimagic. That will be suppressed and if you enter the area of effect you will become material again as Antimagic field extent in the ethereal plane. DESCRIPTION. benefit: The anti-mage can drain magic weapons and items of its power. With this information we can conclude that the Shapechanger trait is magical and affected by an antimagic field, the werewolf would revert back to humanoid when in a antimagic field. Effect is temporary on permanent items for 1 hour, and for each full round can remove a +1 or item special ability. Antimagic handcuffs. Then flood the caves with a Decanter or Endless Water or equivilant. Find Familiar has a duration of instantaneous, so once it has been cast there's nothing to suppress. Range 10 ft. In the 2nd round, acid rain starts falling. . 5 designers like Jesse Decker dislike the spell. Furthermore, while a magic sword does not function magically within the area, it is still a sword (and a masterwork sword at that). Summoned creatures of any type and incorporeal undead wink out if they enter an antimagic field. May 20, 2002. [email protected] breath weapon of a typical dragon isn’t considered magical, so antimagic field won’t help you but armor of invulnerability will. to 5:00 p. I've always had an idea for crafting a version of the antimagic field (or effect) that worked by degrees. 4. Time spent within an antimagic field counts against the suppressed spell's duration. Since curses are magical in nature, they are supressed when brought within the confines of the field. The spell's effect is to create the wall (which then exists independently) and then remove it when the spell ends. But in order to happen, the spell must function. It's D&D, not Pathfinder, but this should help. Pathfinder did introduce a few countermeasures: Aroden's Spellbane (as noted above) can prevent it from working on you, but I don't think it actually lets you cast through it (at least you can cast on yourself), and you can't use it in am emergency (if you're already in the Antimagic Field, you can't cast it no matter how high. Re: How to deal with an Antimagic Field. At 5th level, you’re immune to charm. A tactic came up in my weekly game that caused quite a discussion, so I thought I would turn to all of you for an opinion. Spells and effects of the chosen schools are unaffected by the antimagic field. Limited by the wording of the Anti magic field spell, there is nothing to state that Divine Smite is explicitly affected, as it not a spell, or explicitly magical effect. Antimagic field will work in some cases. Spell, spell like, and supernatural abilities all get shut down. The inherent animation of a golem is stronger than an ordinary magic item, just as whatever makes a beholder float is more intrinsic than than a spell. Spells can't penetrate the area, magic items cease to function within it, and no one inside can cast spells or use magic abilities. Break enchantment, dispel magic, and greater dispel magic spells do not dispel antimagic. As Ols pointed out, a thin sheet of lead also blocks detect magic. The_Slasherhawk • 10 mo. Not much else the dragon could do but fight the two melee's in his face since range would have been 1d4 turns of getting pelted by arrows while the other 3 hid from sight. It's the same reason why skeletons don't deanimate . Mage’s disjunction has a 1% chance per caster level of destroying an antimagic field. Rare Magicfux Crystals are placed around the area. Within the sphere, spells. The staff retains its enhancement bonus and extra damage against spellcasters inside any antimagic field. . SPOILER. Sign In; Cart . EFFECT. Re: Options for a caster against antimagic field. It doesn't remove. Plenty of fluff reasons for you to intemperate here. This intricate rune displaces spell energy, granting you a +1 status bonus to saving throws against magical effects. An antimagic field suppresses any spell or magical effect used within, brought into, or cast into the area, but does not dispel it. Mage can destroy scrolls and 1 charge from wands, staffs, etc. Summoned creatures of any type and incorporeal undead wink out if they enter an antimagic field. Spells like animate objects allow a caster to temporarily animate an existing object. Golems are Immune to Spells. If you manage to get a hold of this before some fight, take advantage of its nature as an emanation; it can be blocked by solid objects, and in this way, you can customize the shape of its projection. J. The duration increases to 10 minutes per caster level. /-----Now for the actual question-----/. Antimagic: An antimagic field spell or effect cancels magic altogether. It costs 22500 gp and casts antimagic field on you every round. Unbreakable Arrow: This arrow can’t be broken, except when it is within an antimagic field. Antimagic is tricky and a pain on the fly with. The spell antimagic field 's spell level belies its vast power; it's one of the most powerful and difficult to manage effects in the game. An antimagic field suppresses any spell or magical effect used within, brought into, or cast into the area, but does not dispel it. You can use the information later. Suppose there is a device in the middle of a large but ordinary room that creates a permanent anti-magic field with a 10-foot radius (as per the Antimagic Field spell). A strike is never a magical ability, therefore, anything involving strikes are unaffected by a golems antimagic, including weaknesses and immunities. Those rules don't apply to counterspelling though, as counterspells aren't targetting an existing field, they're preventing the spell from ever coming into effect. The Anti-Magic Field rules pertaining to summoned creatures are specific and do not mention SP, SU, spells, or anything else regarding how the summoned creature came to be. Sign In; Cart . I don't believe there is anything that specifically meets your criteria. During one of the endless caster-martial discussions, the dragon in the antimagic shell was brought up. Don't dread it, go with it. Animate Dead does create undead (ObinRson is wrong here), but once it's animated, the spell has already taken effect - there. The rules on this are black-and-white and self contained. That suggests that if it is an active effect, the effect finishes doing its thing after 24 hours. The damage can be magical or deal elemental damage as it's a part of the weapon damage calc. g. My party fought a wood golem and encountered anti-magic for the first time (to hilarious effect) however the rules are ambiguous and I came up against some conflicts. anti magic field: "An antimagic field suppresses any spell or magical effect used within, brought into, or cast into the area, but does not dispel it. Mythic magic items are still magic. PORTLAND, Ore. See Invisibility. It is not as if the Eidolon is back on the planes, but he is more in summon limbo. /level (D) Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance yes. Then inside you have magic again. Folks, the antimagic field must be up BEFORE the Mord's disjunction hits. 5] Okay, explain how you cast spells inside an Antimagic Field. Red: Bad, useless options, or options which are extremely situational. A strike is never a magical ability, therefore, anything involving strikes are unaffected by a golems antimagic, including weaknesses and immunities. Target or Area one spellcaster, creature, or object; or a 20-ft. View Cart; Help; Pathfinder . While in an antimagic field, the bag of holding should be usable as a normal bag of its exterior dimensions. Many people are surprised to learn that a magnetic compass does not normally point to true north. They reappear in the same spot once the field goes. Our party has discovered source severance for our cleric and druid. r/Pathfinder2e. antimagic field is a lvl 6 spell that can only be taken off by the lvl 9 mage's disjunction and even if you use that spell, only a 20%. The space within this barrier is impervious to most magical effects, including spells, spell-like abilities, and. CASTING. Valheim Genshin Impact Minecraft Pokimane Halo Infinite Call of Duty: Warzone Path of Exile Hollow Knight: Silksong Escape from Tarkov Watch Dogs: Legion. A 10-foot-radius invisible sphere of antimagic surrounds you. Time spent within an antimagic field counts against the suppressed spell’s duration. Zealous-Vigilante • 1 yr. to 5:00 p. You could abandon the cursed sword in the antimagic field. This area is divorced from the magical energy that suffuses the multiverse. Customization and support are at. But all these classical D&D spells that made it into Pathfinder are written. Ultimate Spheres of Power. Either way antimagic field on the lich suppresses rejuvenation, meaning: If the trigger is a one-shot deal. These have many more rules, as well as many more grafts, which may be useful to port to these Pathfinder options. An antimagic field suppresses any spell or magical effect used within, brought into, or cast into the area, but does not dispel it. Any active spell or other magical effect on a creature or an object in the sphere is suppressed while the creature or object is in it. You choose to use greater dispel magic in one of three ways: a targeted dispel, area dispel, or a counterspell:Assuming that antimagic zones operate in the same way as the antimagic field spell; Weapon runes shut off within the zone and resume functioning once outside it. The 9th-tier Mythic ability Immortal is a supernatural ability, which would generally mean that it shuts off in an antimagic field. You repel all magic from the target area, preventing spells and other magic from functioning. Paizo Blog; Forums; PaizoCon; Community Use; GuidelinesIf you ever get put in an anti magic field the shrink item will temporarily be suppressed and turn into a medium sized metal cone that envelops you and blocks the anti magic field's line of effect, thus allowing you to teleport out. It pretty much neuters most powerful creatures, as they all are or use magic. A creature that succeeds at its saving throw takes 5d8 points of damage plus 1 point of Constitution damage. Time spent within an antimagic field counts against the suppressed spell's duration. Time spent within an antimagic field counts against the suppressed spell’s duration. The player thinks that some spells, such as Charm Person or Ice Storm or Haste, should work if the targets are outside. Conjuration Spells -. If the invisible creature were to walk into an antimagic field, the effect would be suppressed and they would be become visible. Legend. And, unlike a Cube of Force the effect is permanent. Melt Stone (Su) An ancient red dragon can use its breath weapon to melt rock at a range of 100 feet, affecting a 50-foot-radius area. Certain spells, such as wall of force, prismatic sphere, and prismatic wall, remain unaffected by antimagic field. A plane with the dead magic trait functions in all respects like an antimagic field spell. Wall of force, prismatic wall, and prismatic sphere are not affected by antimagic. The 2nd question of the sage advice answers yes, and thus is considered magical. Time spent within an antimagic field counts against the suppressed spell's duration. TELEPORTATION: Antimagic Field specifies that teleportation and magical travel, whether spell based or not, cannot function in the sphere. Rules: Antimagic Field & Incorporeal Creatures. Select one spell per five caster levels at the time of casting. The real solution is to talk to your DM about this issue. An antimagic field suppresses any spell or magical effect used within, brought into, or cast into the area, but does not dispel it. This includes Keneticist. Can someone provide me a link to the FAQ entry (if any) about what happens to Eidolons in antimagic field? Starglim :. Non-Mythic. This is both an asset and a liability; by. Price 6,500 gp. Dispel magic and antimagic field on the phylactery have the same effect as antimagic field on the lich. Extracts are the most varied of the three. An antimagic field suppresses any spell or magical effect used within, brought into, or cast into the area, but does not dispel it. If you are using the psionics-magic transparency rules, then yes, they are identical. Since the ghost's rejuvenation is a supernatural ability, it actually can be killed in an antimagic field. Arboreal Hammer. Unlike a Cube of Force the only "choice" is a Wall that keeps magic in. If the antimagic field survives the disjunction, no items within it are disjoined. The eidolon disappear as soon as the Summoner sleep, become unconscious or die, so it clearly isn't a instantaneous conjuration. Beginner Box ; Rulebooks . Summoned creatures of any type and incorporeal undead wink out if they enter an antimagic field. Same goes for a caster with anti-magic field. The relevant part of the description states: Creatures and Objects. Good to know, but luckily, Pathfinder, and Changlings can't change their faces, I think. Yes, spell-like abilities go under the heading of “magic” in Pathfinder; antimagic field, dead magic zones, and other things that refer to “magic” interact with spell-like abilities, including the kineticist’s. Jul 20, 2022, 08:39 am. Hey guys Antimagic field has a radius of 10 ft In the spell it says: Should a creature be larger than the area enclosed by the barrier, any part of…RPGBOT uses the color coding scheme which has become common among Pathfinder build handbooks, which is simple to understand and easy to read at a glance. catoblepas0 • 10 mo. Spoilers. Not sure exactly what would happen if the sword left the antimagic field and the owner was a distance away though. Antimagic Field also strips away Su abilities while in it, which her immortality is. Zealous-Vigilante • 1 yr. Not being able to use spells or magic. Adaptation (aegis) Prerequisites: Protection sphere (Energy Resistance (aegis, ward)), caster level 10th. Hypersmurf: the duration is indeed instantaneous; I tend to agree with your. Dispel magic /counterspell only works on spells. resistance. Activate [reaction] command Frequency once per day; Trigger A spell targets you or includes you in its area; Effect The armor attempts to counteract the triggering spell with the. 302, Pathfinder RPG Bestiary pg. The area in a 10-foot sphere centered on this shield is always under the effects of the antimagic field spell. *Pathfinder & Starfinder . And on page 289 for Wish: • You grant up to ten creatures you can see immunity to a single spell or other magical effect for 8 hours. Specifically: Anti-magic: A golem is immune to spells and magical abilities other than its own, but each type of golem is affected by a few types of magic in special ways. That is, spells and spell-like effects are unraveled and. Antimagic field says it shuts down magic items. Reply. But there's no specific way as common as severing/gentling in pathfinder. From antimagic field- " Artifacts and deities are unaffected by mortal magic such as this. They reappear in the same spot once the field goes away. Would the spellcaster detect the presence of the antimagic field? Yes. "Restrictions are GOOD in Pathfinder 2e" - I've had players coming from D&D 5th Edition who want to homebrew Pathfinder 2e rules that cost you an action to move, raise a shield, and do other things, as well as. Second Edition Rulebooks; Official Digital Toolset; Online System Reference; Downloads; First. Aug 31, 2007 #2. If, as Diego Rossi says, the summoned creature winks in and out (which, looking at Antimagic Field, he's completely right), the Movanic Devas will succeed after a few milliseconds of winking in and out and then stick around. Also, using Wall of X (stone, iron, force) to keep the enemy cleric from you would also work. Pathfinder GM Core releases this November 15 at your favorite local game store, bookstore, and the Paizo Store along with Pathfinder Player Core. To make sense of this, you could look at it this way: time stop does not, in fact, stop time in the whole of the. They reappear in the same spot once the field goes away. IE - a magic sword in an antimagic field will simply be a masterwork sword, and once the antimagic ends or the sword leaves the area, it resumes its magical properties. "An antimagic field suppresses any spell or magical effect used within, brought into, or cast into the area, but does not dispel it. It allows the defeat of many foes the PCs would've otherwise found invincible, and it allows the weak foes to defeat the PCs. Haste dispels and counters slow. Jan 2018. Foolish_Mortal_13 • 5 yr. You could craft a magic item that has a constant anti-magic field on it, and just ensure that the anti-magic field is set off by a condition. The antimagic field is your best bet and those are not cheap or easy to employ. Shattered Psyche: Your mind is crowded with dozens of voices, fragmented snippets of your past lives. Jul 23, 2012, 02:10 pm. 145K subscribers in the Pathfinder_RPG community. I've added the italic to emphasize the part which says, functionally "Once you have picked the golem as a target, ignore everything else the spell actually says - it. Casting Time 1 standard action Components S. Yep. ". However, if influential sorts with access to a lot of money. In my opinion you can use spells in the antimagic field but, for example if i play with an eldritch knight will be a lame thing casting spells like a coward when you can hadle your great elven sword agains the bad guy. Antimagic field says: Spells and other magical effects, except those created by an artifact or a deity, are suppressed in the sphere and can't protrude into it. You can also use this spell to target a single item. The creature's "physicality" has nothing to do with it. They reappear in the same spot once the field goes away. Given that the normal Divine Smite requires a spell slot to be expended, I took it to be considered as a spell and therefore unusable within an Antimagic Field (PHB, p213): This area is divorced from the magical energy that suffuses the multiverse. Since none of the statements for spell suppression are true, dimension door (and teleport which has a similar targeting line) allows you to teleport into an Antimagic. The martial uses the true-strike to trip or grapple. We take Rary’s Telepathic Bond so that. Really though, Antimagic Field is supposed to be difficult to get rid of. CL 21st; Price 750,000 gp; Feats Craft Construct, Disruptive, Spellbreaker, antimagic field, mage’s disjunction, prismatic sphere, wish. /level (D) Saving Throw: None. Summoned creatures of any type wink out if they enter an antimagic field. This could be 'tested' by the druid entering an antimagic field: A druid in an antimagic field could not transform into their wild shape (or presumably back) in any event. From the SRD: An emanation spell functions like a burst spell, except that the effect continues to radiate from the point of origin for the duration of the spell. Multiple spellbane effects can overlap. Last edited by Draco_Lord; 2015-08-11 at 11:30 AM. Second Edition Rulebooks; Official Digital Toolset; Online System Reference; Downloads; First. Range personal Targets you Duration 1 round. Anti-magic character building help. Valheim Genshin Impact Minecraft Pokimane Halo Infinite Call of Duty: Warzone Path of Exile Hollow Knight: Silksong Escape from Tarkov Watch Dogs: Legion. A 10-foot-radius invisible sphere of antimagic surrounds you. Background: In this week's session, our party came across a homebrewed NPC enemy that the GM gave "antimagic aura" to as a perpetual racial ability…Need Help? Mon–Fri, 10:00 a. If the spell doesn't produce any sort of visible display or. That said, wild shape in first edition absolutely was subject to nullification by an antimagic field. Description of Antimagic Field says: An antimagic field suppresses any spell or magical effect used within, brought into, or cast into the area, but does not dispel it. Greater Magic Aura only exists in pathfinder, Magic Aura also exists in 3. Summoned creatures fizzle out because they are a spell-they don't exist prior to the spell being cast and cease to exist once the spell ends. The barrier is an Abjuration effect that would be visible to a spell like detect magic. A creature whose Constitution score is reduced to 0 by this spell is entirely disintegrated. You can only gain the benefits of one. You just need to be able to find something that can damage it in the field, and it would not be able to regenerate. Time spent within an antimagic field counts against the suppressed spell’s duration. Are Alchemists disabled by Antimagic field?. View Cart; Help; Pathfinder . Even if there were, the effect would be to suppress the teleportation magic, causing the teleported creatures to drop back into the material plane inside the antimagic field. My question is this: does this include demigods like…The fighter, with a magic objet, made a dimensional door to the other side, to attack the evil wizard next round. I ruled that the acid becomes real and is not stopped by the field. That way, PCs might gain a feeling of increased "oppression" by whatever force is causing the effect. Within the area of the spell, effects are suppressed and creatures are affected as by antimagic field. Summoned creatures of any type wink out if they enter an antimagic field. Oct 2009. 5 Disjunction. 213, bold added): Spells and other magical effects, except those created by an artifact or a deity, are suppressed in the sphere and can’t protrude into it. The init on the lich is low. If, however, you are not using the psionics-magic transparency rules, then no, antimagic field and spell turning don't work against powers. When you enter an antimagic field, the cone will enlarge back to normal size and drop down around you, blocking line of effect and allowing you to contingency-teleport away. Because the only exception to the AMF-magic interaction (in the spell description) is to clarify that instantaneous Conjuration: Creation effects, after being cast, are non-magical; I must. My group is having a debate about the anti-magic field. So golems' resistance against physical attacks affect mundane and magical weapons the same. *beat the animal into submission/physically make the animal move*. The only exception to this being Antimagic Field, which is largely unchanged. ago. Only the exact spells mentioned are affected—a spellbane set to prevent the casting of summon nature’s ally II would not prevent castings of. Link. As a rule, the only way to get rid of a lich for sure is to destroy its phylactery. Even an antimagic field will not affect a golem, or most constructs. Not 100% immune, but pretty close. Join. An antimagic field suppresses any spell or magical effect used within, brought into, or cast into the area, but does not dispel it. Second Edition Rulebooks; Official Digital Toolset; Online System Reference; Downloads; First. 4. r/Pathfinder_RPG. In many ways, they behave like spells in potion form, and as such their effects can be dispelled by effects like dispel magic using the alchemist’s level as the caster level. An antimagic field suppresses any spell or magical effect used within, brought into, or cast into the area, but does not dispel it. View Cart; Help; Pathfinder . Jun 28, 2003. A Pit Fiend that is called won't go away in an antimagic field. Unlike a Cube of Force the only "choice" is a Wall that keeps magic in. Dec 27, 2018, 12:15 pm. It depends heavily on this tactic in this particular encounter. Mage’s Magnificent Enclosure. I recall a rule, or line of text, in D&D 3. The text of antimagic field says "A normal creature can enter the area, as can normal missiles. Any creature in contact with the lava takes 20d6 points of fire damage on the first round, 10d6 on the second, and none thereafter as the lava hardens and cools. Think of it as an antimagic field stopping you from being able to touch the magical fabric of the universe. Dragons are much weaker with an antimagic field. However, that does not prevent it from targeting or stripping away the polymorph effect. But depending on how the antimagic field works, there might be a simple solution: Enter a tent or similar structure which closes of emanations or spreads. Invoke magic. Advanced talents are part of an optional rule and are only available with GM permission. customer. CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS. Hello there. As far as I can gather from the description, spell immunity won't work either. Spells can’t penetrate the area, magic items cease to function within it, and no one inside can cast spells or use magic abilities. But once the cast gets off, Dispel Magic obviously isn't enough. Nothing beats DM fiat - so this is probably just a thought exercise. A creature can have only one spell immunity or greater spell immunity spell in effect on it at a time. The PC's had cast an Anti-Magic Field ( AMF ) to lock down an NPC. Now, he was a bit disappointed in the choice of plant-centric spells, so he suggested two spells. 306, Bestiary 3 pg. If this is the typical cube with a button then we're talking use activated (6th level spell x 11th level caster x 2000gp = 144,000gp) At this point decide if it can be recharged or not. Mythic Spells. Time spent within an antimagic field counts against the suppressed spell's duration. Duration sustained up to 1 minute. The key here is that time stop has. Vigilant Eye: One of the things I loathe about Pathfinder 2e is the way the rulebooks are layed out. It was an interesting situation where the party was a powerful 15th level group in a situation where retreat wasn't an option, and didn't have holy water (who carries holy. The "brought into" part of anti-magic field means you'd have to walk into the field after the see invisibility spell was cast and "bring it" into the field. breithauptclan. This spell otherwise functions like antimagic field, except its emanation only prevents the functioning of the selected. The shapechanger even has an specifically notation in the polymorph spell. Until the spell ends, the sphere moves with you, centered on you. Activate [reaction] command Frequency once per day; Trigger A spell targets you or includes you in its area; Effect The armor attempts to counteract the triggering spell with the. This would require a persuasive conversation with a DM though, as RAW only comments on summoned creatures with SR. The item gets a Will save at a –5 penalty to avoid being. About BEC and BGC units A Brief History The BEC classification system was developed by V. Select a number of spell schools equal to half your tier. The antimage must spend 1 point of nullmagic each round as a free action to maintain the antimagic aura. Make them go before the lich etc etc. Oct 2009. An antimagic field suppresses any spell or magical effect used within, brought into, or cast into the area, but does not dispel it. The main eye generating an anti-magic field is pretty much in the monster's definition and the anti-magic field spell does not counteract magic. Any summoned creature placing an antimagic-field on itself would have to succeed an caster level check against its eventual spell resistance to make itself wink out of the plane. The space within this barrier is impervious to most magical effects, including spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. The general rule of thumb is if it's magic or supernatural, it can't exist or be cast within the field, and will be suppressed until the field goes away if it enters. An invisible barrier surrounds you and moves with you. Also I didn't list magic items- only artifacts. Two antimagic areas in the same place do not cancel each other out, nor do they stack. Yes, wild shape is a spell, so it can be dispelled. Since flight is a demilich's normal manner of locomotion and it is of a creature type not shut down by Antimagic Field, it can fly, just as a zombie can walk. An antimagic field suppresses any spell or magical effect used within, brought into, or cast into the area, but does not dispel it. Spells can’t penetrate the area, magic items cease to function within it, and no one inside. -radius emanation, centered on you. In my campaigns, antimagic fields have two causes: 1) A mage put it there purposefully (using permanency as Midsolo said) or 2) a significant magical event created a disruption in the area's ability to sustain magic. Undead and constructs are imbued with magic and moved by negativo energy and elemental energy respectively. Antimagic Field allows a summoned creature with SR to a attempt a roll to not wink out. However, it seems fairly anti-thematic (and potentially anti-climactic at that) for such an ultimate mythic ability to be turned off by a 6th-level spell. If a creature outside an antimagic field targets a creature within and antimagic field with a magic weapon, does the target still take extra damage. There's nothing in the description of antimagic that says it extends into the astral. [OC] [VIDEO] Video on Iomedae the Inheritor, breaking down her lore and history, world-building and role-play advice for players, advice PC/NPC/Quest Hook creation, the best magic items as rewards/loot, and a free homebrew magic item! Spoilers for PF: WotR! 126. Spells like animate objects allow a caster to temporarily animate an existing object. These spells aren’t separate spells you gain as a spell known from your spellcasting class, but rather mythically. Antimagic Field vs. In 2E rules as written, artifact rules say "artifacts and other magic items" so we know they're magic items. Mythic abilties have have the same (Ex), (Su) and (Sp) designations as non-mythic abilities. As for buffs and such, I cannot find a rationale in the Rules As Written why they would not work.